When it comes to sports rivalries, few can compare to that of the Pittsburgh Steelers and the Dallas Cowboys in the 1970s. The teams combined to win six Super Bowls during this time and squared off against each other twice in Super Bowl's X and XIII. Roger Staubach, The star quarterback for the Dallas Cowboys won the Heisman Trophy while playing for the Naval Academy.
Rocky Bleier, the starting fullback for the Steelers rushing attack, served two years in the U.S. Army. Both men served in Vietnam with Rocky being seriously wounded in combat. His injuries were so severe, he was told he may never walk, let alone play football again. Well, not only did he play football, he’s the proud owner of four Super Bowl rings.
Roger went on to win two Super Bowl rings and became one of only 253 men inducted to the Pro Football Hall of Fame. But, he still thinks about those two times the Cowboys fell just short of the Steelers. Both games were nail-biters being decided in the fourth quarter by only four points each. We sat down with these two champions to fan the flames of the old rivalry and get some insight on what pro football was like during the glory days.
Vetrepreneur: What was going through your mind the first time you ran on the field for your first down as a pro football player?
Roger: I was backing up Craig Mortensen for four years and he got hurt at the last exhibition game. So I started the first game of the season and I was a nervous wreck I was a nervous wreck for my first Army-Navy game, but in a good way. It's not all unhealthy being nervous. My first professional football game, I started against the St. Louis Cardinals. Fortunately, we won the game because if we will lost, I was sure they were going to get rid of me. That was the most nervous I've been during a football game.
Rocky: My first game as a professional was at the old Pitt Stadium. Even though it was a smaller crowd, that really was a thrill. Later, when I came back from the service, the first time I ran onto Three Rivers Stadium with the brand-new with Astroturf – it was a world of difference. It was a rebirth for me.
Vetrepreneur: What was it like to be stars on arguably the two best football teams in the world during the 70s?
Rocky: Ask Roger. He was the star. He was the Kingpin. It was the height of competition. It was the best two teams, at least in our perception. I know I wanted to win and I know he wanted he wanted to win. You prayed and wished that you could beat the Cowboys. You know, we didn't play that often although we found ourselves a couple times in an exhibition game and of course the two and Super Bowls. But even going into the Super Bowls it was like ‘Oh man. How we are we going to beat their flex defense? Or how are we going to stop their running game? How do we stop one of the best come-from-behind two-minute quarterbacks?’ They turned out to be great games for the fans and the players. We were all on the edge of our chairs to see how it would turn out as both teams have the capability to win. Fortunately, we won, or as Roger would say we won one and the referees won one.
Roger: No, no, I don't blame it on the referees. We were a really good team in the ‘70s and were the only NFC team to win a Super Bowl. We just happened to be in that particular decade when the Dolphins were really good and the Raiders were really good but I think the Steelers were the best team to play in the NFL. For that the four Super Bowl period, they were the best. We just happened to be in the same decade. In the ‘80s, you’ve got to love Joe Montana and the 49ers, but they beat the Bengals twice. The first time we played the Steelers, we played them tough but they beat us 21 to 17. Unfortunately, I threw an interception to Mel Blunt and he outfoxed us. Then they got the ball back and scored. So it went back and forth. The next time we played the Steelers, we were really, really good. We had Tony Dorsett, we had Tony Hill. A couple of plays changed that game. That pass that Rocky caught made the game 14 to 14. Unfortunately, the AFC and the Steelers were better than us.
Rocky: In both those games the fear became the reality of what the Cowboys were capable of doing. It's same thing. They moved the ball down the field and at the end we were able to get a pick to save that Game. In this game [Super Bowl XIII], it’s 35 to 17and then bam and bam and bam. Then they get the onside kick in and scored. And you’re like ‘holy man.’ For that last onside kick, I’m on the frontline and I’m saying to myself ‘don’t kick it to me. I don’t want to be the goat.’ But it was a slow rambling kick and I fell on it. That play was the hardest I had been hit all game.
Roger: One of the unfortunate things about that game is we had a veteran receiver named Jackie Smith. He is a good guy and just played for us that one year and made a lot of good plays for us. Here and it was the third quarter and there was a play that was called and was supposed to be on the goal line but we were on the 11. Jackie's job was a run to the back of the end zone as a safety valve. But Landry calls the play on the 11 yard line. You know, every once in a while he'd call the wrong play. But we sent in three tight ends, it was a short yardage play but he called a play we'd only practiced on Friday. So I called timeout and said ‘Coach, that’s a goal line play,’ and he said but we can't take those guys out.’ Jackie ran to the back of the end zone but he's 21 yards out and he turned around and he wasn't ready for it. The throw was a little bit low. But it was the third quarter that wasn't the end of the game. I was really mad at myself because I pulled the trigger. It’s terrible for Jackie to take the blame for that game. We got beat. That was one of the biggest disappointments of that game that people blame Jackie Smith.
Rocky: that is a real tragedy. What a great football player and Hall of Famer he turned out to be and to look at his career on one play is a shame. Plus, it was Roger's fault he just admitted it.
Vetrepreneur: That's funny because that was going to be my next question.
Roger: I figured that Matthew.
Vetrepreneur: I was going to ask you if Jackie Smith is on your Christmas card list.
Roger: Yes he is. He's the best and it wasn’t his fault.
Vetrepreneur: What did it feel like to lift the Vince Lombardi Trophy for the first time?
Roger: It's a feeling that stays with you your whole life. No one can take that away from you. Nowadays teams get credit for winning one playoff game. When we were playing, it was about winning the Super Bowl. Winning those two was just a great feeling. Rocky’s got to feel fantastic after winning four. But I'm a lot more humble than him because he's never lost Super Bowl.
Rocky: I never lifted the Lombardi trophy. Unlike the Stanley Cup, which is passed from player to player, it's not so NFL. It was great winning, and maybe that's metaphor. Being on the team and being recognized as the champion is the ultimate feeling because all who have played, that’s the quest. Whether it's in Pop Warner or junior high or high school or college, it's to win it to be a champion. To be able to do that on the highest level, it's a great feeling. You’ve also got to be at the right place at the right time and be prepared. We’ve seen many great teams not be able to make it past the first game in the playoffs, so in retrospect, you look back and think ‘wow, you’re luckier than most.’
Vetrepreneur: Which team was better during the 70’s, the Steelers or the Cowboys?
Roger: Well, that’s not very hard. We were really good but we got beat by the Steelers.
Rocky: It's not just winning championships. If that is the only criteria you look at, then yes we were. But if you look at the winning percentages, you realize that the Cowboys won more games. But, at one time there were like 30 people who had four Super Bowl rings and 22 were with the Steelers because we won four Super Bowls during that six-year period of time. But you know the 80s weren’t good for us. It wasn't until ‘95 we got back to the Super Bowl just to lose to the Cowboys.
Roger: You know Rock, I still tell people that the Cowboys beat the Steelers. I figure a hundred years from now, no one will know the difference and they’ll think that I played for that team too.
Vetrepreneur: Roger, the Steel Curtain Defense of the 1970s Steelers fielded some pretty scary guys – legends like Mean Joe Green, Jack Lambert, L.C. Greenwood and Jack Ham. Who made you run the fastest the other direction?
Roger: They had the best defense I’ve ever played against. I think when they got [Jack] Lambert, he seemed to be the glue over there. He was a no-nonsense kind of guy. I don’t think he had any teeth for the game. I think that he really was a factor on the attitude that they had on defense. I think Lambert was meaner than Joe Green. I don’t think they liked us over there very much. We had a lot of people moving around to do everything we could to throw them off. We couldn't take them head-on.
Rocky: it was because of the Cowboys that made our defense as good as it was. If you look back, there wasn't a whole lot of movement, except for the Cowboys. They would have flankers coming back in motion and backs run up to trips and so on. From a defense position, if an offense changes their formation the defense switches to a safe defense. Bud Carson, the defensive coordinator, was not going to do that. He said you must know your assignments for every formation, much to the disagreement of the players. So we've got a thank Tom Landry and the Cowboys teams for making our defense get that much better.
Roger: Boy, that Rocky is great isn't he Matthew? He hates the Cowboys and he tries to make it sound like he likes us now.
Vetrepreneur: Rocky, the Doomsday Defense of the 1970s Cowboys was a formidable bunch, with guys like Ed "Too Tall" Jones roaming the backfield. Which member of this defense did you fear most?
Rocky: They played a different type of the defense, they played a flex defense. Unlike everyone else who was up on the line, they'd move the defensive end off the ball. From a blocking perspective, it was really tough to figure out who's going where and all of a sudden it would change what the blocking scheme would be.
Vetrepreneur: Which team had better fans then?
Roger: I think we both had great fans back then but now the Steelers travel better than anyone. I went to last year's Super Bowl in Tampa and I'm in a hotel with some Steeler fans. They were kinda nice as individuals when they talked to me but they probably didn't say those nice things when they were having a few beers back at the bar. Then I get on the elevator, and a guy grabs my shoulders and it's Mel Blount. I felt like I’d died and gone to Hell.
Vetrepreneur: Do either of you think an NFL team will ever go undefeated like the 1972 Dolphins?
Rocky: I don't know. It’s going to be very difficult. We saw the Titans come close last year, but they played a few more games. The Dolphins only played 14 games at that time. Now teams need to win 16, but anything can happen. And, they played a very easy schedule that year but don't tell anybody I said that.
Roger: It would be a very difficult feat.
Vetrepreneur: When did you take the hardest hit and who hit you?
Rocky: For me specifically, it was from Robert Brazil who played for the Houston Oilers. Robert was kind of a forerunner to Lawrence Taylor. He was a big man, about 6 foot 5, 250 pounds which is large for standup outside linebacker. He was very big, physical and very fast.
Roger: I got a couple of concussions. I was knocked out in my first exhibition game against the Green Bay Packers. I was trying to run out of bounds and tied to cut it back into the field and ran into Ray Nitschke. Then I tried to run over Marlin McKeever on the goal line and he separated my right shoulder. The hardest I had I ever had in my career was a regular-season game in Pittsburgh. It was toward the end of my career and L.C. Greenwood hit me when I was stumbling and it just happened to hit me in the side of my helmet and I was knocked out. I had no idea what happened. I had a lump start to form on the back my head. L.C. knocked me cold turkey on that deal.
Vetrepreneur: What is your take on the current state of professional football? How has the game changed?
Rocky: The players are bigger, faster and better conditioning. Plus, coaching has trickled down and you get better techniques and players coming in to college. You can have a defensive end to drop into pass protection and you get all the different schemes possible because of the athleticism. Plus, the rules have changed. We used to have bump and run. You could get up on the line and manhandle the receivers and not be penalized. That has changed the game and opened it up for passing. Aside from the money the players are making and the money the league has made.
Roger: I think the biggest change to the rules is hitting players downfield. As Rocky mentioned, you can stay with a guy bumping him around, as long as the ball wasn’t in the air. If I was running around buying time, in today’s game, these guys can’t be touched. But back then, they were still clobbering those guys. That’s made a big difference in the passing game. That’s why the passing game statistics are better now. Plus, players are a lot bigger. The game is still a heck of a game. The quarterback is protected more.
Vetrepreneur: Both of you are also successful in business. What did you learn in the military that has served you well as an entrepreneur?
Roger: Hard work, teamwork and trust. Teamwork is trust. We’ve built a company over 31 years and you’ve got to build that trust internally. It’s about thinking of someone other than yourself. You’ve got to set those personal agendas aside. They are important, but they do come secondary to a client. When things aren’t going well, you’ve got to persevere.
Rocky: You learn what you can and cannot do. You learn your strengths and accommodate for your weaknesses. I think sports teaches you that. But, it’s more about the people you have around you. You treat them well, then they’ll block for you.
Sidebars:
Quick Hit
What team will win the Army/Navy game in December?
Roger: Navy, we’re on a roll right now.
Rocky: Navy. I’m jumping on that boat. I’ll tell you one game they’re not going to win [Notre Dame].
Roger: After 43 years, we finally beat Notre Dame. We beat ‘em in ’63 and I ran all you Notre Dame guys and for 40 years you guys beat us.
Quick Hit
Which is better, a Primanti’s sandwich or grilled rib eye?
Rocky: Primanti’s. You can’t get ‘em anywhere else.
Roger: I’ll go along with that.
Quick Hit
Who would win a wrestling match between Chuck Noll and Tom Landry?
Roger: Chuck would win for sure right now. Coach Landry was a tough son of a gun though. If they got into it, it would be interesting.
Rocky: I figured they talk their way out of it.
Quick Hit
Who would win a wrestling match between the Navy Goat and the Notre dame Leprechaun?
Roger: A couple of years ago, Notre Dame had a fourth and seven and the guy scrambled and it really looked like he didn’t get it. Then some Leprechaun comes out and measures and they got the first then they went on to beat us. Those leprechauns are tough.
Rocky: Yeah, they pop up everywhere.
Quick Hit
Midshipmen keep a certain part of Bill the Goat’s anatomy continually polished on his brass statue on campus. Does the leprechaun get similar treatment?
Rocky: This is a family magazine. We can’t answer that question.
Roger’s Words of Wisdom:
There are no traffic jams on the extra mile.
Rocky’s Words of Wisdom:
Learn what you can and cannot do. You learn your strengths and accommodate for your weaknesses.